Floppyshop 2/Floppyshop - 2.zip/Floppyshop - 2.iso/diskmags/0022-3.564/dmg-3155/622.txt

Text File | 1992-05-11 | 28KB | 635 lines

           Atari Sys 5 Unix- any owners out there? (4 msgs)
                   coming soon: Son of Welcome ...
   For Sale: ST296N Hard Disk, Atari SC1224 Monitor and Atari Drive
              GNU C - What do I *really* need to use it?
               Gnu Emacs 18.57 and other ramblings....
                       High rez boards for STEs
             Multitasking of Desk Accs and apps: (2 msgs)
                  Pay Stubs of the Rich and Ataried
                           ST Applications
                            ZIP for the ST

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 27 Nov 91 11:16:39 GMT
From: mcsun!uknet!yorkohm!minster![e-mail]
Subject: Atari Sys 5 Unix- any owners out there?
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Richard Covert) writes:
[discussion about prices of TT vs Mac IIfx]

>ah, so A/UX is buggy. do you really think that Atari's UNIX will
>be any better? Heck, Atari still can't make a multitasking OS for the
>TT, so I don't place much faith in their UNIX porting abilities!!

A/UX is a port of System V, release 3, with additions and changes demanded
by Apple.

TT Unix is a port of System V, release 4. Now, this doesn't mean that it
will be less buggy. However, the port was done by a company that
specialises in porting System V to Motorola processor based machines (among
other things).

They have years of experience at the game -- they know what they're doing.

[more discussion on prices deleted]

>Then you need to factor in the availability of backup devices for the
>TT/ASV system. Sure it has a SCSI interface but WHO sells device drivers
>for such exotic devices as 4mm Digital Audio Tape drives, or the
>Sony SMO magneto-optical read/write drives? Or the newest 3.5"
>Sony SMO drives? Or even just the old fashioned DEC 60megabyte
>tape drives.

Er... just use any SysV device driver.

>
>It is when you need to add peripherals that the sorry shape of the Atari
>market really is noticed.
>
>But with a Mac you can add almost any type peripheral including CDROMs.
>And they work under A/UX as well as the Mac OS.
>
>And that's another thing, A/UX supports Mac apps.

And this is one of the reasons why it's so buggy.

>But ASV won't
>run ST/TT apps, so throw away all of your TT programs cause they
>won't work under ASV.

So hold down the key that prevents the TT from attempting to boot from your
Unix disk and force it to start TOS instead. OK, so you can't run both at
once... but why would you want to?

>Richard E. Covert                 [e-mail]
>CACTUS                  ..!cs.utexas.edu!cactus.org!covert

Mathew

| Mathew Lodge              | "Baldrick, are the words 'I have a cunning plan' |
| [e-mail]  |  heading towards this conversation with ill      |
| Summer: lodge%alsys@uknet |  deserved confidence?" -- Blackadder III         |

------------------------------

Date: 27 Nov 91 20:01:58 GMT
From:
 noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!hanauma.jpl.nasa.gov!hyc@a
 rizona.edu (Howard Chu)
Subject: Atari Sys 5 Unix- any owners out there?
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Richard Covert) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Patrick
 Haggood) writes:
>I have developed under a half dozen different UNIX machines in the lasst ten
 years. All the way back to the original AT&T 3B2 when I worked at Bell Labs.

Heh. While Bell Labs is impressive, having worked on a 3B2 is not exactly
something I'd brag about. I had the misfortune of using them for a few
months too, not an experience I'll soon repeat.
>
>I have to wonder just how serious a UNIX workstation is if it is from Atari.

If it is a full Sys V R4 implementation, what else is there to say? SVR4
defines a binary interface, library interface, etc. etc. etc.. Either it's
compliant or it's not; if it was not compliant they couldn't call it SVR4.
>
>First, the TT is a bit underpowered seeing as how it is basically just
>a 16MHz 68030. Oh I know the CPU is running at 32MHz but the I/O buss
>is still 16MHz and UNIX is VERY I/O intensive (can you say disk swapping?).

Swapping is a technique used when one's virtual memory requirements exceed
the physical memory space. I've got 32Meg of RAM in a Sun-4 here, and I can
see that the swapper has only consumed about 6 CPU seconds in the past two
days. Unix is not necessarily I/O intensive...
>
>Also, their UNIX X Windows pack requires the $1,000 monochrome monitor
>as the native TT color resolutions aren't high enough to support decent
>X Windows.

Sounds reasonable to me, I wouldn't want to run X on a 640x480 display.
Dunno how PC-folks can put up with Windows-3.1415... on a regular VGA
either. At least the high-rez capability exists intrinsically, rather
than being a chancy add-on like it is for comparable machines. (PC clones,
mainly.)
>
>And Atari is shipping the GNU compilers, which while excellent are NOT
>commerically supported compilers. Try getting technical support if the
>compiler breaks and you don't have access to USENET. Do you want to spend
>your precious development time debugging your development tools or
>writing your project? Thats why you need professional, commerically
>supported compilers and debuggers.

There's a company called Cygnus that provides commercial support for the
GNU tools. This complaint is groundless.
>
>But hay, pay out the $6 to $8 grand that an Atari Sys V development
>system would cost. I would rather pay the same bucks and buy a Mac IIFX
>with Apple's A/UX. At least I know Apple will be around for awhile!!

Um... Yeah. Apple A/UX sucks. The Mac //fx had (has?) serious motherboard
design flaws, making its (lack-of) reliability rival that of the original
thin Macs. Not to mention the slowness of the //fx memory and I/O buses.
You carp about the TT's 16 MHz bus not being fast enough for an I/O
intensive Unix system. The //fx doesn't have DMA SCSI. The main RAM is
accessed with *9* wait states. No burst mode access to RAM. That nice 40 MHz
processor is being slowed to an effective 11.4 MHz due to memory latency.
(Now you know why so many 3rd party companies are making $$$ selling
puny little 64K cache cards for the Macs...) A //fx would make a laughable
Unix machine.
--
  -- Howard Chu @ Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA

------------------------------

Date: 27 Nov 91 21:36:05 GMT
From:
 noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs
 .ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!wsu-cs!jake![e-mail] (Patrick
 Haggood)
Subject: Atari Sys 5 Unix- any owners out there?
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mathew
 Lodge) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Richard Covert) writes:
>[discussion about prices of TT vs Mac IIfx]
>
>>And that's another thing, A/UX supports Mac apps.
>>But ASV won't
>>run ST/TT apps, so throw away all of your TT programs cause they
>>won't work under ASV.
>
>So hold down the key that prevents the TT from attempting to boot from your
>Unix disk and force it to start TOS instead. OK, so you can't run both at
>once... but why would you want to?
>>Richard E. Covert                 [e-mail]
>| Mathew Lodge
>| [e-mail]

Actually, the advance word (from the Atari Unix folk) is that there is a
TOS taskmaster (emulator? runner? do-er?) getting polished up by some
folks in Germany.  Perhaps the middle of next year?

But, I have to agree with many of the arguments my thread started :-)
When Atari promises anything, you really have to take it with a grain of
salt, preferably from the rim of a tall margarita, but you have to admit
they build some really damned neat-o machines.  And, their
price/performance really is pretty good.  I saw their machine and was
terribly impressed with what I saw.  It's no speed demon, but with a
19inch monitor, 340M drive and 16M of RAM you're still under 6K!  I have
decided to go ahead and purchase the Sun, but if I wasn't connected to a
university (thus getting a HEFTY discount from the manufacturer) there
would be no choice: I'd get the Atari.

Oh, and to put in a word for GCC: I like it, a lot.  And it's free.  Hot
damn.
--
Genie    - P.HAGGOOD2                      Internet [e-mail]
PRODIGY  - Not anymore, Jackson.           Bitnet   - phaggoo@waynest1
Phone    - [phone]
Voice    - "HEY, YOU WITH THE BAGGY PANTS!"

------------------------------

Date: 27 Nov 91 18:50:57 GMT
From: mcrware!mwca![e-mail] (Bill Sheppard)
Subject: Atari Sys 5 Unix- any owners out there?
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Richard Covert) writes:
%>I have developed under a half dozen different UNIX machines in the lasst ten
 years. All the way back to the original AT&T 3B2 when I worked at Bell Labs.
%>
%>I have to wonder just how serious a UNIX workstation is if it is from Atari.
%>
%>First, the TT is a bit underpowered seeing as how it is basically just
%>a 16MHz 68030. Oh I know the CPU is running at 32MHz but the I/O buss
%>is still 16MHz and UNIX is VERY I/O intensive (can you say disk swapping?).

I don't think this will be a problem.  We just bought a 33MHz 80386, a very
nice, reasonably high performance platform.  While the processor runs at
33 MHz, the bus runs at 8.7 MHz - I think this is standard for PC-AT bus
architecture.  The TT's bus running at 16 MHz is twice as fast, ignoring the
fact that TT video is accessible by the CPU, whereas PC-AT video has to be
accessed over the bus (I know about fast RAM vs. video RAM, but it is still
more direct for a TT then for AT architecture).  Secondly, the ST/TT has never
been a slouch when it comes to disk performance, regardless of bus speed.  If
my 8MHz ST can approach 1 MB/sec with a middle-of-the-road SCSI drive, I'm
sure a 32/16MHz TT can do much better with a high-end Unix-y drive.

%>And Atari is shipping the GNU compilers, which while excellent are NOT
%>commerically supported compilers. Try getting technical support if the
%>compiler breaks and you don't have access to USENET. Do you want to spend
%>your precious development time debugging your development tools or
%>writing your project? Thats why you need professional, commerically
%>supported compilers and debuggers.

I believe many vendors are expecting customers to use GCC - Sun no longer
supports their 68K compiler, for instance.  There are companies around who
make a living by providing support for the GNU toolset.

%>Richard E. Covert                 [e-mail]
%>CACTUS                  ..!cs.utexas.edu!cactus.org!covert


--
 ##############################################################################
 # Bill Sheppard  --  [e-mail]  --  {uunet,sun}!mcrware!mwca!bill  #
 # Microware Systems Corporation -- OS-9 / OS-9000 / CD-RTOS -- [phone] #
 ############# Opinions expressed are my own and usually wrong ################

------------------------------

Date: 27 Nov 91 12:25:41 GMT
From:
 noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!mips!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!lapis.labmed.umn
 .edu![e-mail]
Subject: coming soon: Son of Welcome ...
To: [e-mail]

Just a quick note to let all of you know that a =New= +improved+ Son of Welcome
to Comp.Sys.Atari.ST will be arriving at your local newsgroup Real Soon Now.

:-)

By the way, if any of you have hints, tips, questions-and-answers, stupid ST
tricks (did I miss anything?) which you would like to see appear in this
International Frequently-Asked-Questions List, please send them to me, quickly!

--

David Paschall-Zimbel           [e-mail]

"The most important fact about Spaceship Earth: An instruction book didn't come
with it." -- R. Buckminster Fuller

------------------------------

Date: 27 Nov 91 22:10:07 GMT
From: pyramid![e-mail] (Mark Frost)
Subject: For Sale: ST296N Hard Disk, Atari SC1224 Monitor and Atari Drive
To: [e-mail]

For sale...

- Atari SC1224 Color Monitor

- Seagate ST296N Hard Drive (with ICD adapter card and dual-drive enclosure/
        power-supply)

- 800K internal floppy drive from Atari 1040 ST

Make me an offer.


          -m-----------  Mark Frost    ([e-mail])
        ---mmm---------  System Administrator - R&D Engineering Group
      -----mmmmm-------  Pyramid Technology Corporation
    -------mmmmmmm-----  3050 North First Street
  ---------mmmmmmmmm---  San Jose, California 95134
-----------mmmmmmmmmmm-  [phone]

------------------------------

Date: 27 Nov 91 20:23:03 GMT
From:
 noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!mips!atha!aunro!ersys![e-mail]
 (Michel Forget)
Subject: GNU C - What do I *really* need to use it?
To: [e-mail]

Hello,

I will soon be buying a 1040STe with four megabytes of RAM, and I was
wondering if this would be suitable to run the gNU C software package.
The computer will have an AdSpeed STe in it, as well.  I have a 30
Megabyte hard drive, of which I use about 10 megs.  Would this be enough
to use the package?  I've heard that it is big, but I can't see the
package itself taking up 20 Megabytes of space on the HD.  I also use
Data Diet, with a compression rate of about 40-45% overall, so that might
ease the burden alot.  Also, where does one send away to get the package?
I saw an address once upon a time, but I can't remember it and don't know
if it is still valid.  I also remember that a person had to send nineteen
disks as well.  I *hope* they meant single sided...:)


<<  ------------------------------------------  >>
<<        [e-mail]          >>
<<     ersys![e-mail]       >>
<<               Michel Forget                  >>
<<  "Do not meddle in the affairs of Wizards,   >>
<<  for they are not happy campers!" - UNKNOWN  >>
<<  ------------------------------------------  >>

------------------------------

Date: 27 Nov 91 23:15:26 GMT
From: elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!@locus.ucla.edu (John Bunch)
Subject: Gnu Emacs 18.57 and other ramblings....
To: [e-mail]

Howdy.

I just recently spent a long time downloading the zoo file for emacs
18.57, and have run into a few hitchs trying to dump it.  Well it seems
that some of the files use more then 8.3 for filenames, and I am only using
gulam and no UNIXMODE?  When I try to dump emacs it cant find all the loadup
files to dump.  Any info would be appreciated.

John.

--
John B Bunch              *  I don't want the world, I just want your
771 Madison Ave Apt.2e.   *     half....     -TMG
Albany, NY 12208          *                     [e-mail]
[phone]            * UUCP: {...}!crdgw1!sixhub!myst!john

------------------------------

Date: 28 Nov 91 15:33:17 GMT
From:
 arizona.edu!cerritos.edu!nic.csu.net!csus.edu!wupost!spool.mu.edu!munnari.oz.au
 !bruce!csv.viccol.edu.au![e-mail]
Subject: High rez boards for STEs
To: [e-mail]

>
> I haven't had much luck displaying the color modes, though.  It kind of
> works, except that each of the three color signals seem to be shifted about
> 1/3 of a screen with respect to each other.  This I can deal with by
> using the control panel to turn off all colors but green.  But there's
> another problem: the left edge of the display starts about 1/3 of the way
> across the monitor, and wraps around such that the right edge of the
> display ends up overlapping the left edge by a good 1/3 of the screen width.
> In other words, if I move the mouse all the way across the desktop from left
> to right, it will traverse the screen one and a half times!  Does any
> one knowledgeable about video signals know what could cause this?  COuld
> this be caused by the OMNISWITCH box I'm using?  I poked around inside
> and it looks like the video goes through some 74LSXX before going to the
> multisync connector.  Or is this inherent in a gray-scale multiSync?
>

 I think you will find that the problem that this monitor will not scan slow
enough to lock the colour modes. You need the grey scale equiv of a NEC 3d.

Greg O'Sullivan
([e-mail])

------------------------------

Date: 27 Nov 91 19:40:52 GMT
From: sgi!odin!flatcat.wpd.sgi.com![e-mail] (Steve Whitney)
Subject: Multitasking of Desk Accs and apps:
To: [e-mail]

In article <RiaqKBg/[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Harold
van Aalderen) writes:
|> There is one problem, AES is not really multitasking but more like
|> taskswitching on a message bases.

This happens periodically, and I'm going to try to clear it up.  It's
been said a lot lately.

|> When ever a AES call finishes AES looks at the top of a list and executes
|> the program marked ready to run.
|> To get on that list you first must use an event_x call to request a certain
|> input from a device (or an alarm from the timer). The program than gets the
|> WAITING status and when the desired information comes available it is put
|> at the end of the READY to RUN list.

This is correct, bvut it does not mean that the AES doesn't multitask.
The AES uses a technique called "non-preemptive multitasking," which
simply means that it does not force "processes" to give up control of
the CPU.  This is the same technique used by Apple's Multifinder.  It
is not an appropriate technique for multiuser systems since one user
could choose to keep the CPU forever.  If applications are well-behaved,
non-preemptive multitasking looks the same as preemptive multitasking,
and the overhead can be significantly lower.

|>
|> Conclusions: TOS programs that do not make any AES calls will blok all
|>              the other programs. (exect does driven by system interrupts)
|>              Taskswitching is only performed when KEY or MOUSE input is
|>              requested by some program.
|>
Correct.  A call to evnt_timer with a zero as the time to wait is
necessary to allow scheduling to take place.

|> MultiGem is an kind of extension to AES in the way that it makes the
|> scheduling mechanism used for ACCS availebale for all programs.
|> It is still not a multitasking program only a task-switching program.
|>
|> True multitasking** can only be implemented by rewriting large amounts of
|> GEMDOS and BIOS code because the I/O part of TOS is not really setup
|> for multitasking. (I believe that is what MINT does).

See above.  MiNT is a preemptive multitasking kernel for GEMDOS.

|>
|> Until Atari adopts some standard and forces all developers to follow it.
|> And Atari develops a true multitasking TOS we will have to live with
|> programs like MINT and MultiGem including all incompatiblity risks.
|>
|> ** with true multitasking I mean that a program can be interrupted in the
|>    middle of any kind of operation include disk I/O. Ofcourse on a
|> single CPU
|>    system there can never be more than *ONE* set of instructions
|> active.
|> --
|> Harold van Aalderen |  [e-mail]
|>                     |  {...!mcsun}!hp4nl!hgatenl!tedux!alice!harold
|> alice: She's not the neighbour girl nor is she living in wonderland
|>        Who it is? For me to know for you to guess.

Sorry for the pedantry.  People should know that the AES desk accessory
scheme is still multitasking.  "Task switching" typically refers to
utilities that allow several "virtual machines" each of which is running
a program.  The user switches between these with some sort of hot-key.

        --Steve Whitney / Silicon Graphics OS Group

------------------------------

Date: 27 Nov 91 19:47:38 GMT
From: sgi!fido!odin!flatcat.wpd.sgi.com![e-mail] (Steve Whitney)
Subject: Multitasking of Desk Accs and apps:
To: [e-mail]

In article <RiaqKBg/[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Harold
van Aalderen) writes:
|> There is one problem, AES is not really multitasking but more like
|> taskswitching on a message bases.

This happens periodically, and I'm going to try to clear it up.  It's
been said a lot lately.

|> When ever a AES call finishes AES looks at the top of a list and executes
|> the program marked ready to run.
|> To get on that list you first must use an event_x call to request a certain
|> input from a device (or an alarm from the timer). The program than gets the
|> WAITING status and when the desired information comes available it is put
|> at the end of the READY to RUN list.

This is correct, bvut it does not mean that the AES doesn't multitask.
The AES uses a technique called "non-preemptive multitasking," which
simply means that it does not force "processes" to give up control of
the CPU.  This is the same technique used by Apple's Multifinder.  It
is not an appropriate technique for multiuser systems since one user
could choose to keep the CPU forever.  If applications are well-behaved,
non-preemptive multitasking looks the same as preemptive multitasking,
and the overhead can be significantly lower.

|>
|> Conclusions: TOS programs that do not make any AES calls will blok all
|>              the other programs. (exect does driven by system interrupts)
|>              Taskswitching is only performed when KEY or MOUSE input is
|>              requested by some program.
|>
Correct.  A call to evnt_timer with a zero as the time to wait is
necessary to allow scheduling to take place.

|> MultiGem is an kind of extension to AES in the way that it makes the
|> scheduling mechanism used for ACCS availebale for all programs.
|> It is still not a multitasking program only a task-switching program.
|>
|> True multitasking** can only be implemented by rewriting large amounts of
|> GEMDOS and BIOS code because the I/O part of TOS is not really setup
|> for multitasking. (I believe that is what MINT does).

See above.  MiNT is a preemptive multitasking kernel for GEMDOS.

|>
|> Until Atari adopts some standard and forces all developers to follow it.
|> And Atari develops a true multitasking TOS we will have to live with
|> programs like MINT and MultiGem including all incompatiblity risks.
|>
|> ** with true multitasking I mean that a program can be interrupted in the
|>    middle of any kind of operation include disk I/O. Ofcourse on a
|> single CPU
|>    system there can never be more than *ONE* set of instructions
|> active.
|> --
|> Harold van Aalderen |  [e-mail]
|>                     |  {...!mcsun}!hp4nl!hgatenl!tedux!alice!harold
|> alice: She's not the neighbour girl nor is she living in wonderland
|>        Who it is? For me to know for you to guess.

Sorry for the pedantry.  People should know that the AES desk accessory
scheme is still multitasking.  "Task switching" typically refers to
utilities that allow several "virtual machines" each of which is running
a program.  The user switches between these with some sort of hot-key.

        --Steve Whitney / Silicon Graphics OS Group

------------------------------

Date: 27 Nov 91 19:34:29 GMT
From:
 noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-
 state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu![e-mail] (David A.
 Johnson)
Subject: Pay Stubs of the Rich and Ataried
To: [e-mail]

In a previous article, [e-mail] (Harold van Aalderen) says:

>In <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
>>Here are the salaries of top Atari brass as of 4-15-91 :
>>* salaries deleted *
>>Just thought I'd let you all know, for what ever good it may do you.
>
>What kind of country do you live in that this kind of private information
>can be published on a world wide network. Don't you have any respect for
>peoples privacy!!

Because Atari is a publicly traded company (you can buy Atari stock on the
American Stock Exchange), there are rules that mandate that the salaries of
these top executives be disclosed.  Atari itself publishes this information
in their annual report to comply with these rules.  So it's really no
violation of anyone's privacy--you can find this information easily and
it's publicly available.

--
_________________             David Johnson             _________________
  "I've been     \     [e-mail]     /    __ ___   __
  tampered with!" \     Michigan State University     /    /  /     /
     -Car alarm    \                                 /  __/  /__ __/

------------------------------

Date: 27 Nov 91 17:36:04 GMT
From: mcsun!uknet!warwick!covpoly!cck.cov.ac.uk![e-mail] (WEG)
Subject: ST Applications
To: [e-mail]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (dennis armstrong) writes:
>In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (R C Smith) writes:
>
>
>>Does anyone subscribe to ST Applications (I think that is what it is
>>called) from the ST Club. If so what do you think?
>
>May I suggest the French ST MAGAZINE
> subscriptions from:
> ST MAGAZINE ABONNEMENTS
> 36, Rue de PICPUS
> 75012 PARIS
>
Yes, but it'll be in French. I don't speak (or read) French, only English.
Any magazines in English, even American? I used to read ST World, but it
unfortunately died a death and was merged into ST User.

*     *  ******   ****  |WEG - Mark D Weston      | "Common sense is the set of
*     *  *       *    * |Computer Science         |  prejudices acquired by age
*     *  ****    *      |Coventry Polytechinc, UK |  18."       Albert Einstein
*  *  *  *       *  **  |email: WEG or csi056     |-----------------------------
*  *  *  *       *    * |JANET: [e-mail]
 ** **   ******   ****  |INET: [e-mail]
                                Vote Conservative

--
*     *  ******   ****  |WEG - Mark D Weston      | "Common sense is the set of
*     *  *       *    * |Computer Science         |  prejudices acquired by age
*     *  ****    *      |Coventry Polytechinc, UK |  18."       Albert Einstein
*  *  *  *       *  **  |email: WEG or csi056     |-----------------------------

------------------------------

Date: 27 Nov 91 21:56:51 GMT
From: mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!isis.cs.du.edu![e-mail] (John Bunch)
Subject: ZIP for the ST
To: [e-mail]

I have also used ST Zip 0.9 extensivly and have not noticed it being
Buggy?  Ah well..


John

--
John B Bunch              *  I don't want the world, I just want your
771 Madison Ave Apt.2e.   *     half....     -TMG
Albany, NY 12208          *                     [e-mail]
[phone]            * UUCP: {...}!crdgw1!sixhub!myst!john

------------------------------

End of Info-Atari16 Digest
******************************